kayre | more crazy religious ponderings

smcwhort asks tonight’s questions:
Do you believe in the life, death, and literal resurrection of Jesus? Do you believe that no man cometh to the father but by Him? Do you believe that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all pray to the same God? Is worship of, say, the Greek pantheon, as legitimate as worship of Jesus and his father? Will believers in that pantheon end up in Heaven? In Hades? Does Heaven have a literal, post-death existence, or is it something imperfect mortals make on earth? Does God look into our souls, figure out what our theology really is, judge us according to that theology, and act accordingly towards us? If so, what does God really want with and from us?

Do you believe in the life, death, and literal resurrection of Jesus? Life: yes, but I’ll be the first to admit that the gospels are nowhere near 100% accurate about the details. Death: ditto. Literal resurrection? Maybe-- depends on what you mean by ‘literal.’ The gospels seem to simultaneously insist that the risen Jesus still had his ordinary human body, brought back to life (he could eat, people could touch the wounds), and portray him as having something far from an ordinary body (unrecognizable one moment, recognizable the next, appears and disappears from locked rooms). I do think the body probably disappeared, and that the followers did have visions of Jesus. It was important to the believers that Jesus was something besides a ghost (they all believed in ghosts, after all); the stories seem to point to a transformed but still physically real body. BUT.... my faith doesn’t rest on any of this. If , somehow, it were proved tomorrow that I’m utterly wrong, I’d be fascinated but not shook up. My religion-- like that of Jesus-- is focused on God. (I sometimes think that the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity was being called Christianity-- it permanently shifted the focus to the wrong aspect of God.) Unlike most Christians, I find the life and teachings of Jesus far more important than his death and resurrection. (And I do NOT believe that substitutionary atonement was God’s plan from the beginning, or the only possibility!)

Do you believe that no man cometh to the father but by Him? Yes, but backwards-- I believe that Jesus is an expression of, or name for, the aspect of God that welcomes people back to God-- but not that you only get to heaven by believing in Jesus. I also tend to think of this as the aspect of God which existed before being manifested as Jesus, and exists now... so I truly am not trying to patonizingly say that Jesus saves the Jews and the Muslims, whether they know it or not. (Gosh, I wish I could find a better way to say this.)

Do you believe that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all pray to the same God? Yes-- and I believe that each religion (and each religious community, and each believer) understands cetain aspects of God well, and makes horrible mistakes in other areas.

Is worship of, say, the Greek pantheon, as legitimate as worship of Jesus and his father? Gotta admit, I had to ponder this one for a while. In the end, I have to say yes, but with reservations. First, such worship would be, like the religions you already asked about, right on some points and wrong on others, inevitably. Second, since as far as I know the worship of that pantheon died out, any such worshipers would be converts, which takes me back to what I said about conversion yesterday. (Even worse, they'd be converts without a living tradition to guide them-- no generations of believers, no trained leaders.)

Will believers in that pantheon end up in Heaven? In Hades? Heaven, most likely. I’m just one tiny step from being a universalist-- I believe the only way to not get into heaven will be to knowingly reject God, with full understanding of who/what God is and what that rejection means. (So what’s the point of faith? The good it does in our life now.)

Does Heaven have a literal, post-death existence, or is it something imperfect mortals make on earth? Here you catch me in the kind of mysticism that some diagnose as psychosis. I believe in a literal post-death existence-- because I had a near-death experience in which I believe gave me a glimpse of that existence. The fact that most sacred documents can be interpreted as agreeing reassures me somewhat.

Does God look into our souls, figure out what our theology really is, judge us according to that theology, and act accordingly towards us? If so, what does God really want with and from us? When I taught a doctine class (Christian Believer), the definition of doctrine given at the beginning was “that which must be believed in order to be saved.” By the end of the course, I told my class that if that definition was correct, I wasn’t sure there was any such thing. God can save whoever God chooses to save, regardless of what any of us believes or does. I believe that God loves us all; wants to save us all; and will give us every possible way to get into heaven, rather than setting up traps and tricks to keep us out. I believe right now, God wants us to grow... to wrestle with questions, to struggle through relationships, to mature.

And if I’m terribly wrong.. the other place will probably be more fun.

I’m glad you asked... maybe you’ll realize soon how much I enjoy talking about such things, as long as the discussion’s not too hostile!